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@  dasa : (29 May 2017 - 03:55 PM) They can be profitable though if you can break the 60 % winrate barrier :D
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 03:52 PM) Everyone is entitled to an opinion
@  dasa : (29 May 2017 - 03:51 PM) It was an example of a bad deal bins = bad deal
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 03:51 PM) *to risk
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 03:51 PM) @dasa Read lower, i siad bins is a hobby of mine, not to risk 1M on an offshore broker would be stupidity
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 03:50 PM) @Barnabee As I said, EVERY business is a gamble
@  HAWK : (29 May 2017 - 03:42 PM) ;)
@  Barnabee : (29 May 2017 - 03:37 PM) the gamble is is theres world war and a nuke drops on his houses
@  Barnabee : (29 May 2017 - 03:37 PM) every business is not gambling, for example i know a person whos business is buying and renting houses, real estate is basically the safest business on the planet
@  dasa : (29 May 2017 - 03:01 PM) because why would any serious businessman risk for example 100000 of their money to win 80000
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 02:47 PM) Every business is a gamble, so why differentiate it
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 02:46 PM) Alright man, later
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 02:46 PM) Yea bins is basically gambling, that's no prob for me
@  Tripack : (29 May 2017 - 02:45 PM) tc
@  Tripack : (29 May 2017 - 02:45 PM) movie time :P
@  Tripack : (29 May 2017 - 02:45 PM) Oh boy I better stop here I start to sound like loot, lol
@  Tripack : (29 May 2017 - 02:43 PM) when does dealing with money ends being a gamble ?
@  Tripack : (29 May 2017 - 02:42 PM) ok there seems to be a general disconnect between gambling vs hobby, or maube gambling can be a hobby
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 02:41 PM) heh
@  ZeusDCS : (29 May 2017 - 02:41 PM) So how I can stomp you as well?

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What did you change to start making a profit?


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#1 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 03:09 AM

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Hey guys, I'd like to share some of the changes i made in my trading approach that turned me from making overall losses to being profitable over a long term period, and then also hear other members stories regarding this.

I'm not claiming to be a high flying trader earning a bomb with BO, but I have however managed to turn my trading experience around in the last year from someone frantically changing strategy whenever I got an OTM to the point where I feel now I am consistently making a modest supplementary income from trading...and with a much better degree of self discipline.

I feel the main pivot point for me has been learning the basic fundamentals about price movement and behaviour on two currency pairs, something i learned from hubba hunna...this has required a lot of patience from me to do as I always used to impatiently have 10 or so pairs open to get maximum amount of trades but didn't have a clue about each pairs behavioural traits in certain trading windows.

Secondly I feel a key ingredient has been actually printing out a strict set of rules, and only searching for trades that tick every box. Even if I find a high probability set up that ticks almost every box, I won't take it unless the full criteria has been met, because even an ITM would feel like gambling to me if it wasn't according to my rules. A successful trade now is only when the rules are followed, whether it's an OTM or an ITM.

This has helped me significantly in a psychological way as I don't kick myself when an OTM comes if I know that my rules were followed. I just look for the next eligible set up free of emotion or adrenaline, as I have confidence in the setups from my back tests.

One of my major rules is that price must be breaking out of a tight congested range with high momentum and strong bullish/bearish breakout candles. I then have other logical filters I apply to validate the trade regarding retracements and fakeouts.

It's a strategy I hope to be able to explain in detail soon on the forum.

What about everyone else? What are the biggest positive changes you have made in your trading experience that made you profitable?
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#2 JesusJunior

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 04:20 AM

Very good point . as you says people try to read lots of charts instead focusing only on 2 / 3 . After i read HH topic i also started to analyse only 2/ 3 charts. 

The patience is also a very important key aspect because if i can´t see a trade i just sit and wait for it . I m not rush trader. 

Money Management , having fixed number of trades winners or losers also protect someway myself from overtrading or turning profitable day in losing day. 

And the last and not less important , having the 7 rules of Mark Douglas on my right side of the PC and read it everytime when i lose a trade :D :D 


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#3 BrianC

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 04:38 AM

Very interesting topic. This is something I am still working on, so I am very interested in other's experience. My biggest problem is discipline and patience, something I am still working on every day, so what your are saying sounds about having a set of rules is of big help to me. It helps me not so much to know when to enter a trade, but very often when not to, so it can keep me from rushing into trades and over trading. It is quite clear to me, the days I am being very disciplined and stick to this plan, I do way less trades but ITM % goes up, and when I don't then my ITM% stinks and I have less or no profit that day.


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#4 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 04:40 AM

Very good point . as you says people try to read lots of charts instead focusing only on 2 / 3 . After i read HH topic i also started to analyse only 2/ 3 charts. 
The patience is also a very important key aspect because if i can´t see a trade i just sit and wait for it . I m not rush trader. 
Money Management , having fixed number of trades winners or losers also protect someway myself from overtrading or turning profitable day in losing day. 
And the last and not less important , having the 7 rules of Mark Douglas on my right side of the PC and read it everytime when i lose a trade :D :D

Agreed, there's something about printed rules that makes them official and more respected from a mental viewpoint. I would suggest to every trader to do it.

It sounds like your biggest learned attributes are the same as mine: patience, discipline and organisation. :)

#5 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 04:48 AM

Very interesting topic. This is something I am still working on, so I am very interested in other's experience. My biggest problem is discipline and patience, something I am still working on every day, so what your are saying sounds about having a set of rules is of big help to me. It helps me not so much to know when to enter a trade, but very often when not to, so it can keep me from rushing into trades and over trading. It is quite clear to me, the days I am being very disciplined and stick to this plan, I do way less trades but ITM % goes up, and when I don't then my ITM% stinks and I have less or no profit that day.


Yeah I'm exactly the same. The best thing I ever did regarding this was to shift my focus away from OTM or ITM rates and solely focus on whether rules were followed or not, regardless of the profit or loss aspect. Then at the end of every trading day I log in a file my rules followed ITM rate and also my rules not followed ITM rate for the day.

I couldn't believe how effective this was for my trading and how it made me detach emotionally from the trade.

If you focus on this, then the profits will take care of themselves.
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#6 BrianC

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:03 AM

Yeah I'm exactly the same. The best thing I ever did regarding this was to shift my focus away from OTM or ITM rates and solely focus on whether rules were followed or not, regardless of the profit or loss aspect. Then at the end of every trading day I log in a file my rules followed ITM rate and also my rules not followed ITM rate for the day.

I couldn't believe how effective this was for my trading and how it made me detach emotionally from the trade.

If you focus on this, then the profits will take care of themselves.

Great, I will try that, because I do focus a lot on the ITM rate. It is really funny/sick how the mind works some times. I mean, I completely know (well, almost) that if I stick to my plan and only make some, very few, well planned trades I will end up in profit that day, but some times my brain and right hand just goes against me and start doing all those emotional trades that screw up my plan....


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#7 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:28 AM

Great, I will try that, because I do focus a lot on the ITM rate. It is really funny/sick how the mind works some times. I mean, I completely know (well, almost) that if I stick to my plan and only make some, very few, well planned trades I will end up in profit that day, but some times my brain and right hand just goes against me and start doing all those emotional trades that screw up my plan....


At least you're not alone in that...even with strong determination I still find myself breaking rules, but this does at least limit it to a significant extent.

It helps also to identify the emotional triggers and thought patterns that make us trade when we shouldn't and write them down on a text label on your chart, once we identify them we can spot them when were trading and vow to never trade when they are present. Little things like this may sound silly but I know that they are the make or break in my case.

With me its usually adrenaline, or a thought of "what if I can hit my MM target early today" that I succumb to...but again trading on a rules followed success rate rather than an ITM rate tackles this effectively.
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#8 BrianC

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:34 AM

I have actually thought about suggesting a group (to people with the same problem as me) where we would have to post pics of every single trade we make and explain in details why we chose to make that trade, step by step. When I do that to myself, it helps because it makes me evaluate every step I take before I make a decision to enter a trade, and at the same time it helps you to learn from your OTMs as well, and then I thought it might have an even stronger effect if you have to explain it in public.


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#9 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:39 AM

I have actually thought about suggesting a group (to people with the same problem as me) where we would have to post pics of every single trade we make and explain in details why we chose to make that trade, step by step. When I do that to myself, it helps because it makes me evaluate every step I take before I make a decision to enter a trade, and at the same time it helps you to learn from your OTMs as well, and then I thought it might have an even stronger effect if you have to explain it in public.


Yeah That could be helpful to people, thats what I like a lot about hubbas thread - Every trade is explained...I think that has really been key in developing the strategy and helping others. So a general thread not limited to one strategy could be quite useful for many.
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#10 MannaAvantil

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 01:40 PM

It may sound stupid, but my output changed when I stopped caring of the outcome of my trades, after acquiring the "don't give a shit" attitude my trades gained more reason and sense than before.

 

Of course that doesn't mean that I just put and call trades whenever I feel like it, I just look at the facts and my basic rules like checking SR, overbought oversold and whatnot and then checking the last minute of the candle, certain or uncertain movement? Do this or do that, nothing more or less, I'll get a small tingling feeling in the last minute since it's the most crucial moment, but that's about it.

 

Also yeah, not counting ITMs or OTMs anymore, if your account is getting bigger or smaller that's all you need to know, it's better to look at the big picture instead of focusing on single trades.

 

First guy "My account rised by 10% this month"

 

Second guy "I've made 10 dollarydoos today!"

 

I'd sure as hell prefer too feel like the first guy


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#11 Dontthrowyourbananaatme

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 01:43 PM

I have actually thought about suggesting a group (to people with the same problem as me) where we would have to post pics of every single trade we make and explain in details why we chose to make that trade, step by step. When I do that to myself, it helps because it makes me evaluate every step I take before I make a decision to enter a trade, and at the same time it helps you to learn from your OTMs as well, and then I thought it might have an even stronger effect if you have to explain it in public.

Good idea....go ahead and start that tread!! I will post my trades, as well as my rules!!


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#12 Tripack

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 02:08 PM

Mainly 3 things:

 

1. stop looking for the holy grail

2. stop using indicators and looking at areas of interest where supply & demand do meet

3. discipline myself with risk, exposure, etc, i.e. learning to call it a day.


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In order to become successful, first stop doing what unsuccessful people do.


#13 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 02:18 PM

It may sound stupid, but my output changed when I stopped caring of the outcome of my trades, after acquiring the "don't give a shit" attitude my trades gained more reason and sense than before.
 
Of course that doesn't mean that I just put and call trades whenever I feel like it, I just look at the facts and my basic rules like checking SR, overbought oversold and whatnot and then checking the last minute of the candle, certain or uncertain movement? Do this or do that, nothing more or less, I'll get a small tingling feeling in the last minute since it's the most crucial moment, but that's about it.
 
Also yeah, not counting ITMs or OTMs anymore, if your account is getting bigger or smaller that's all you need to know, it's better to look at the big picture instead of focusing on single trades.
 
First guy "My account rised by 10% this month"
 
Second guy "I've made 10 dollarydoos today!"
 
I'd sure as hell prefer too feel like the first guy


That's right, definitely looking at the bigger picture or like you say trying not to care too much about the money side of it (or pretend to yourself not to at least)
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#14 Tripack

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 02:29 PM

It may sound stupid, but my output changed when I stopped caring of the outcome of my trades, after acquiring the "don't give a shit" attitude my trades gained more reason and sense than before.
 
Of course that doesn't mean that I just put and call trades whenever I feel like it, I just look at the facts and my basic rules like checking SR, overbought oversold and whatnot and then checking the last minute of the candle, certain or uncertain movement? Do this or do that, nothing more or less, I'll get a small tingling feeling in the last minute since it's the most crucial moment, but that's about it.
 
Also yeah, not counting ITMs or OTMs anymore, if your account is getting bigger or smaller that's all you need to know, it's better to look at the big picture instead of focusing on single trades.
 
First guy "My account rised by 10% this month"
 
Second guy "I've made 10 dollarydoos today!"
 
I'd sure as hell prefer too feel like the first guy


That is really subjective but good point, you don't get in this business with your last diles to buy bread for your family.

In order to become successful, first stop doing what unsuccessful people do.


#15 Svalbard

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 02:39 PM

Mainly 3 things:
 
1. stop looking for the holy grail
2. stop using indicators and looking at areas of interest where supply & demand do meet
3. discipline myself with risk, exposure, etc, i.e. learning to call it a day.


Thanks, nice and concise. Seems to be a running theme with everyone that a focus shift has to happen - and as soon as price action becomes priority and self discipline is addressed proactively, the financial side generally falls in to place.

#16 kmaasmd

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 08:11 AM

 Is there anyone here who is successful and puts down 1000$ or more on a trade ?  :D
...Just curious



#17 singu

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 10:58 AM

The biggest change in my trading mindset was the realization that the market will be there tomorrow, and i don't have to chase trades if i have a couple of losses ...i don't have to take every trade... and not every day is a winning day. 


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#18 JesusJunior

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 03:57 PM

 Is there anyone here who is successful and puts down 1000$ or more on a trade ?  :D
...Just curious

Yes i know few traders from the forum that they compound their trades and they use even more money. 



#19 BrianC

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 01:44 PM

Good idea....go ahead and start that tread!! I will post my trades, as well as my rules!!

I'll check it out next week, too busy this week to start posting stuff....



#20 renatusmusic

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 03:51 AM

Great topic, OP. My journey into the wonderful world of bins has been, well, a journey. Having come over from FX, I believe the psychological impact of bins is so much greater than in any other form of trading. Let me explain;

 

- One thing that really fascinates me about bins and keeps me addicted to it, is the adrenaline of a short term, turbo trade. I've had some scary moments in big positions on FX before, but trust me, nothing beats the sweaty palms of waiting for a position to expire knowing the only thing that has control over it is time.

 

- The psychological downfall of having the most appalling R:R ratio. In FX, anything less than a 1:2 is probably advised against. Especially for scalping, I would have 1:5, or even 1:7 R:R's, essentially making my trades almost risk free. Bins is 1:0.8, maybe 1:0.9 at a push. This affects trading massively on a psychological level, whether you like it or not.

 

When I first started with bins, I was fascinated by the endless array of indicators. I knew about OBOS but never agreed with it, nevertheless, I looked for that magic indicator, or a combination of indicators, that would do the thinking for me. I think that covers point 1) Stop looking for the grail and go with one strategy you have confidence in. The psychological disadvantage you put yourself in by not having confidence in your strategy because of the array of choice you subject yourself to, cannot be overstated.

 

However, even once I ditched the indies and the OBOS and went back to what I knew was right and confident about, I was still getting destroyed, even with strategies I knew were sound and consistent. That's where the above 2 psychological factors come into play. Positions that last 5 mins, 10 mins, even 30 mins, let alone the turbo 60 secs and 2 mins are, in the grand scheme of things, really bloody short times. This affected me because I was shaking full of adrenaline, waiting to pull that trigger. Mistakes were made. And even when it was OTM through no fault of my own, I would constantly have the R:R at the back of my head saying that I couldn't afford to lose this, and pull the trigger again in a martingale fashion. The consequences of such behaviour are brutal. I can't tell you how many muppet positions I took trading in this manner, all, OTM's. To add insult to injury, it destroys point 1), and made me lose confidence in really solid strategies. I've abandoned at least 2 that I know other people are making money with. So 2) Take your losses, accept them, and move on. Maintain a cool head and confidence in your strategy.

 

Bins is easily one of the most exciting forms of trading I have ever done, but also the most challenging. They say that FX is about money management. As money management is something that you don't really have control over in bins, you need to have pretty bloody good confidence in your strategy and keep a cool head about it, even if you lose. In my opinion, the psychological edge and discipline you need to develop in bins, and finding your way around the market with less than appealing R:R, would make anyone a fantastic FX trader.


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